Sunday, September 18, 2005

Brahman and Objective Reality.

Following an interesting debate that took place in Anand's post recently, I thought I'll post a view on Brahman and objective reality. Rene Descartes, the father of modern philosophy talks about three types of realities-eminent reality, formal reality and objective reality. The definitions are as follows:

(1) Objective reality: x is objectively real if x is the object of an idea (this comes close to what in modern terminology would be subjective reality - existing 'in' the mind).
(2) Formal reality: x is formally real if x has actual existence in the world represented by an idea (i.e. exists 'outside' the mind).
(3) Eminent reality: x is eminently real if x exists without limitation or imperfection, as contained within a higher level of being (from the standpoint of the world in which we exist, that which is eminently real exists potentially, not actually).

For example, when we think of the sun, we think of it as a two dimensional disc. This idea of the sun which exists in the mind is the objective reality. The actual existence of the sun as a three dimensional sphere with hot gases is the formal reality. The eminent reality is something like God which exists potentially but cannot be comprehended actually (by all).

Also, Descartes gives a nice hierarchy of these realities. He says, eminent reality contains formal reality and objective reality, formal reality contains objective reality (three dimesional sun exists which appears as two dimensional disc) and the objective reality can stand alone. I think this is analogous to three types of realities mentioned in Visishtadvaita. The philosophy of Visishtadvaita is based on Tatvatriya as mentioned in this post. Tatvatriya is the classification of realities into insentient (Achit), sentient (Chit) and Brahman which corresponds to objective reality, formal reality and eminent reality respectively. The objective reality (idea of insentient things) exists in the mind, the formal reality (like consciousness or sentient things) is outside the mind and it can comprehend objective reality and thus resulting in a kind of inclusion. Similarly, Brahman or eminent reality includes formal reality and objective reality. Descartes attributes God to eminent reality. A note should be made here that Visistadvaita doesn't suppose any kind of inclusion between achit and chit, where as Descartes assumes such inclusion.

Anyway, coming back to the question of Brahman and objective reality, we can conclude something from the above observation. This view reconciles the debaters views that Brahman is not the objective reality and Brahman is the basis for the objective reality.


13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear Kasthuri,

you are becoming a great maker of analogies ! nice post

however
there are certain questions-
1. I referred to Kantian Noumena in my discussion- I am not way too sure of this Cartesian philosophy,
besides Descartes was a hardcore dualist and would probabaly be more sympathetic to Dwaita which actually recognises distinct realities .

2. besides I think the vedantins refutation of samkhya is fundamentally flawed - have been reading some stuff along these lines, samkhya is quite scientific and can be properly reconciled with visishtaadvaita but all vedantic acharyas Ramanuja included, treat samkhya as an opponenent to vedanta and debunk it quite forcefully.
I take it that you are positing Brahman as the source of objective reality just as I concluded in that debate- there can be no doubts over this
3. this reality within a reality model corresponds to the model put forth by Penrose- platonic world, physical world and mental world, each being completely enclosed by the previous..
interesting ..
SARVAM SRIKRISHNAARPANAMASTHU!

Agnibarathi said...

@Kasthuri - Very interesting post, and an equally interesting comment by Anand...let me slip back to silence with the information got here...

Mysorean said...

I am with Agni on this one!

Amazing stuff here!

TJ said...

Does it mean, The 'Objective Real' doesnot jusitfy the 'Real' in it. Fantasies will also then qualify as Objective Reals?

Ganesh said...

hmm Kasthuri
I do have few things
but what I will do is raise few common questions and then
let you ,Anand,TJ,Swahilya to answer
can I post this in our common thread or just in my blog
how do you guys prefer

Agni,Adi,Arjun let me know

Kasthuri said...

@ anand : Thanks Anand, ideas come from HIM. You are right that Descartes philosophy deals with the realities in perception, than metaphysical realities. In that way, it will correspond more with Dvaita but I am not sure about division of realities in their system. Thanks for the info in points 2 & 3.

@ Agni, Adi : Thank u guys.

@ tj : I am not sure where dreams and fantasies lie in the Descartes system. It looks like they come under objective reality. But, one thing is for sure, in his philosophy objective reality is a representation of the actual reality and hence may not be really real.

@ ganesh : You can do as you like. I'll be following both. You can also post in this space. The world is u'rs buddy :-)

Gnana Kirukan said...

Ennaku Thalayum Puriyala Kaalum Puriyala - my god - u guys ( u and Anand) are 2 saints in the making..and I am a degraded animal and cant comprehend anything :(..

Arvind Srinivasan said...

Kasthuri,

Is your major math or philosophy ?

tt_giant said...

i am not even worthy of writing a comment.

*silently slinks away*

Kasthuri said...

@ arjuna : Saints in the making ? Ha Ha...probably Anand, not me...If you say you cannot comprehend, then I'll take the blame on me. I hope to be more sensible.

@ arvind : Good question. Neither. My major is supposed to be in Comp.Sci.

@ whoami : This is an excellent remark. I would like to get in touch with JK asap. I believe he is an amazing guy.

@ tt : I think I am not worthy of receiving your comments :-)

krishna said...

guys,..y dont we ask directly to descartes by invoking his soul..may be he can tell us a wat he had in his mind exactly:)

anyways,,Mind-blowing stuff from both of u guys..kast and anand..besh besh..sariyaana combination

Kasthuri said...

@ krishna : Resurrection of Descartes would solve the issue...but not good if he starts a new philosophy.

krishna said...

:)