Often I used to wonder about dreams. To many people, dreams are unreal. One of the reasons that I could think of for the unreal nature of the dreams, is that, sleep constitutes 1/3 rd of the day which is less compared to the waking state. I think if we spend equal time in sleeping as we do in the waking state, then dream state could be as real as being awake. Anyway, one of the nice thing about Vedanta philosophy is that it takes into consideration of all the three states of existence, namely, the waking state, the dream state and the dreamless state. There is another state of existence called turya or the super-conscious state which we'll leave it for now.
The philosophy of Visishtadvita identifies three principles known as Tatvatriya. They are achit, chit and Brahman. Insentinent things are classified as achit, sentinent things are chit and Brahman is the one who possesses both achit and chit as an organic whole. These principles are similar to the three states of existence. In our waking state we are in contact with the insentinent things or achit, in the dream state we know our sentinent being alone which is chit and in the dreamless sleep we are one with Brahman**.
** This idea of being with Brahman in deep sleep is an Advitic view which I have used freely.
The philosophy of Visishtadvita identifies three principles known as Tatvatriya. They are achit, chit and Brahman. Insentinent things are classified as achit, sentinent things are chit and Brahman is the one who possesses both achit and chit as an organic whole. These principles are similar to the three states of existence. In our waking state we are in contact with the insentinent things or achit, in the dream state we know our sentinent being alone which is chit and in the dreamless sleep we are one with Brahman**.
** This idea of being with Brahman in deep sleep is an Advitic view which I have used freely.
13 comments:
Once King Janaka dreamt that he was a begger..So he immediately got up and asked his Guru, whether the dream state being a begger is true or the awaken state being a king is true :)
I was discussing about dreams and awaken states with my uncle last week..I will write about it in a separate post..
Check out my blog title "4 the Truth" :) - and let me know if there are any possibilities...
chiththinay achiththudan iNayththAy anggu sERum aymbUthaththu viyanulagu amayththAy. eththanaY kOdi inbam vaiththAy engaL iRaivA!!!
Dear Kasthuri,
I am inclined to disagree. science tells us that even in deep states of sleep the Brain is not totally inactive. when the seat of the I sense is active we cannot accept the advaitic sense of uniion with the absolute.
in the state you have mentioned , Known as SUSHUPTHI , the I sense is very much there. the analogy you offer is easily subject to trouble if your opponent happened to be a tARKIKA. the analogy is good at a glance but since the resemblance is not substantial it will be shot down by the rules of Nyaya Sastra.
Good to see that you have seen the organic nature of the Tattva traya concept.
SARVAM SRIKRISHNAARPANAMASTHU!
Is there any similarity to the Freudian ego states of Conscious, Subconscious and Unconscious.
mmm...flew way over my head :-)
kasthuri - can u send me ur email id so that I can send u an invite to join our common spiritual blog?
arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com
kasthuri,
is that sentient, insentient? [Pardon my limited vocab ;)]. In that case, isnt sentient awake and insentient dream states?
sorry for ignorance, could u pls give an elaboration, preferably in ur style using maths.
An the word Tatvatriya is intersting.
Tatvatriya=Tatvam+Triya
TripThouArts!
@ arjuna : Yeh, I think realistic dreams are very rare. Anyway, looking forward for u'r post.
@ agnibarathi : Thanks. :-)
@ Anand : I seriously don't know what happens during my sleep :-).Thanks for the info. Its Sri Ramanuja's contention that 'I' doesn't vanish in sleep which is kinda acceptable.
@ paavai : I don't know anything about Freudian philosophy. Sorry.
@ arvind : :-)
@ tj : I am way ignorant and may be talking nonsense. Insentinent things are those that don't posses jnana where as sentinent things have jnana. I compared insentinent things to waking state because only in that state we perceive insentinent things while in the dream state we are one with the conscious. What you say also make perfect sense - that in dream state we are insentinent, if insentinent means the lack of our preception. While I was seeing things objectively, you are seeing subjectively. Nice. Also thanks for the split up.
Anand - one good example why we are the brahman can be easily seen thru the dream state..
In the dream state we create our own world..which is similar to the world created during the awaken state.
When we wake from the dream state, we realize that the world created in our dreams is not true..similarly when the mind becomes silent, we realise that the world that exists in the awaken state is not true!
I will give u examples from Kandhar Anubhuthi soon thru our common spiritual blog :)
I was discussing this with my friend some days back. There was an instance in my dream (several years ago), when a guy mentions the word "prakaaram". I have never heard of this word before. I asked my mom the next day, if such a word existed, and she explained it - in the same context in which the dream happened!. Go figure!.
So, how is that one is able to discover words, so to say.
Kasthuri,
I am going to do some answering here, with your permission of course,
Arjuna,
"In the dream state we create our own world... can you prove that to me with logically valid cases and examples,
I might as well accept the psychological explanation of dreams that they are caused by our own desires, fears etc.
besides there is evidence to show that dreams serve to transfer information to memory
I have checked this myself and it holds true.
now why on earth would dreams be used to transfer information about the "unreal " world to the memory of an individual whose individuality is a false cognition?acording to the extreme monism you favour!
sometimes in my dreams I dream that I am dreaming of something! how do you explain this?
Whoeveryouare!
To say that the state of delta corresponds to absence of thoughts is okay but the faculty of thought is a movement of the mind whereas the I sense is the attribute of the Jivatma. the mind is an instrument for the jivathma and The I sense does not reside in the mind, it is the mark of the Jivathma. the mind is an instrument for knowldege and the Jivathman is the knower.
the knower cannot disinterate in Sushupthi as the re-integration of such a knower upon awakening need not produce the same knower.
identification with Brahman cannot be a temporary state , besides sleep has its basis in the guna called Tamas which is not at all conducive to Brahmaanubhava.
the theory that I becomes identical with Brahman during Sushupthi but becomes the same I again upon waking is not scientific and is logically untenable.
uniformity of experience is noted before and after sleep and this cannot be true of the self which is a reflection.
again if you were to adopt the stance taken by advaitins that the self coming out of sleep is a different one then you will get into a philosophical quandry.
the problem of this view of Susupthi is that it is not consistent at all with all other allied constructs.
overall consistency of Advaita can never be established on a logical basis - such is my humble opinion.
I must also mention here that there was a recent scientific paper discussing brain activity duiring so-called deep-sleep.
I cannot provide references but the news appeared in science colums in the newspapers as well.
What is the I principle in identification with during sleep?
itself of course!
the I principle is not the same as the Brahman and it can attain Brahman only upon release.
Sushupthi is a state of dissociation from material existence but it does not necessarily imply Brahmaaanubhava.
besides the element of tamas which produces sleep ensures that when we wake up we don't have the Svarupajnana present in those who have realised the jivatma svarupam.
it is SATTVA which helps us attain this knowledge but still moksha can only confer permanent co-ordinate prediation with Brahman!
SARVAM SRIKRISHNAARPANAMASTHU!
@ tt : Yes, strange things happen in dreams. I really do believe it has got to do with the impresions in the sub-conscious (either in this birth or earlier) rather than the immediate psychological factors. Psychological factors do affect us, but I guess its transferred into the sub-conscious first (like hierarchies of cache transfers).
@ whoami : In my opinion, the 'I' conscious remains as such (in a passive state, of course) during sleep, like the computer going on a 'stand by' rather than entirely shutting down. This view gives a logical consistency that we begin our programs where we had left it hanging before going into the stand by mode (or sleep) just like what Anand suggests. Complete shut down will result in ending all the process and restarting the system although it starts with the saved states it naturally results in different registry entries. Thanks for initiating a healthy discussion.
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